Advantage of lower resolution higher bitrate files?

[Night457]

[NOTE: This started out as a response to this post in another thread:
https://www.first-loves.net/forums/view ... 64#p111764
I found myself endlessly griping about off-topic technical issues, so I decided to move the posts to a new thread.]

I am glad that you found the quality pleasing! I have only watched the movie once I think, on some other version. I understand the H265 difficulties from my own experience but am fortunate that I can get around it.

I have to admit that I have never understood the motivation for creating 720p versions in the first place UNLESS they are upscales from Standard Definition. If the source is Blu-Ray or film then the resolution should be 1080p, not downscaling it to 720p. Storage space is often not really an issue because I routinely see torrents for 720p versions that are twice the size of the 1080p versions on the same site. For example, 6Gb 720p and 3Gb 1080p. I think I would prefer 6Gb 1080p as I am not sure how 720p of the same size is somehow preferable!

Sorry for the tangent. I guess I am just in a mood to gripe.

[David32441]

I am glad that you found the quality pleasing! I have only watched the movie once I think, on some other version. I understand the H265 difficulties from my own experience but am fortunate that I can get around it.

I have to admit that I have never understood the motivation for creating 720p versions in the first place UNLESS they are upscales from Standard Definition. If the source is Blu-Ray or film then the resolution should be 1080p, not downscaling it to 720p. Storage space is often not really an issue because I routinely see torrents for 720p versions that are twice the size of the 1080p versions on the same site. For example, 6Gb 720p and 3Gb 1080p. I think I would prefer 6Gb 1080p as I am not sure how 720p of the same size is somehow preferable!

Sorry for the tangent. I guess I am just in a mood to gripe.

720p is fine for viewing anything on a phone or tablet. So "the torrent scene" will release 1gb 720p and 2gb 1080p's for most movies. Especially the big ripping groups. And striving for smallest size seems to be important. You even get 128kb aac 5.1 audio tracks which is just amazingly small. AC3 5.1 used to use 384kbit minimum for 5.1 audio! And DTS tends to run at 750kb-1500kb and Dolby Atmos is about 10000kb!
720p was about watchable at a good file size on my 55 inch TV, but not on my 65 - especially at the low data rates they use. I once watched a 2gb 1080p rip of Titanic that was full of giant square blocks because the fools didn't realise a 3hr film needs 50% more data than a 2hr film!

[kast1j]

I watch a lot of stuff on my laptop or external monitor, so 720p is generally more than good enough, and I can accept DVDrip if necessary, but for things I really want to keep I'll go for either 1080p or 4K, 4K is reserved for the top notch stuff that I will rewatch again and again, but that list is limited because of the space they take up.

1.5GB to 3GB for 1080 is usually a pretty great compromise on size/quality since a bunch of the extra space would be audio and my laptop speakers aren't good enough to worry about Dolby Atmos audio, lol.

[Night457]

Heck, I thought the torrent scene released 20gb and above for 1080p! I am getting really tired of that being the only option frequently.

Your points on file size make sense to me, so that is why I am specifically bewildered by 720p files LARGER than decent 1080p files. Larger files ought to also include higher resolution. A SMALLER 720p file makes sense if storage space or downloading time is important. I often torrent 480p late night shows because I am going to watch them on my laptop and then delete them, and talking heads don't need high resolution.

I watched VHS tapes on my 70" 4k, how is that for crazy?

kast1j makes an important point: 5.1 audio (or above) for a file played on a phone / tablet / laptop makes NO sense.

[kast1j]

Heck, I thought the torrent scene released 20gb and above for 1080p! I am getting really tired of that being the only option frequently.

Your points on file size make sense to me, so that is why I am specifically bewildered by 720p files LARGER than decent 1080p files. Larger files ought to also include higher resolution. A SMALLER 720p file makes sense if storage space or downloading time is important. I often torrent 480p late night shows because I am going to watch them on my laptop and then delete them, and talking heads don't need high resolution.

I watched VHS tapes on my 70" 4k, how is that for crazy?

kast1j makes an important point: 5.1 audio (or above) for a file played on a phone / tablet / laptop makes NO sense.

File size is often down to bitrate rather than resolution, that's how you can have 720p bigger than 1080p. I'm no expert but I know that much.

I'm there with you on 480 for watch and deletes. Why waste space you don't need to, plus the smaller size means you can get them downloaded quicker.

[Night457]

I have seen BluRips that are 480p, so I guess if they do them at 20Mbps they can produce, say, a 6Gb 480p rip. This would have a higher bitrate than a 1080p 6Gb rip from the same BluRay. Because the 480p file has higher bitrate, is it then somehow BETTER than the 1080p file?

Your explanation makes perfect sense as to HOW the file sizes are produced. What I want to know is WHY they do it. Why would they want a higher bitrate, but lower resolution file? That's crazy. I can make an even more extreme example. Remember the days of tiny 240p files? Why not make them bigger in storage size with the same resolution? How about if we use 80Mbps to make a 20Gb file that is only 240p? It has higher bitrate, so it must be better (more preferable somehow) than a 2160p 4k file that is the same size! I can follow the illogic through to ridiculous extremes as long as no one can explain the logic of wanting lower resolution when the file size is large.

[kast1j]

I have seen BluRips that are 480p, so I guess if they do them at 20Mbps they can produce, say, a 6Gb 480p rip. This would have a higher bitrate than a 1080p 6Gb rip from the same BluRay. Because the 480p file has higher bitrate, is it then somehow BETTER than the 1080p file?

Your explanation makes perfect sense as to HOW the file sizes are produced. What I want to know is WHY they do it. Why would they want a higher bitrate, but lower resolution file? That's crazy. I can make an even more extreme example. Remember the days of tiny 240p files? Why not make them bigger in storage size with the same resolution? How about if we use 80Mbps to make a 20Gb file that is only 240p? It has higher bitrate, so it must be better (more preferable somehow) than a 2160p 4k file that is the same size! I can follow the illogic through to ridiculous extremes as long as no one can explain the logic of wanting lower resolution when the file size is large.

I'm as bemused as you are with this kind of thing.

If you're watching on a smaller screen ie laptop/tablet/phone then smaller resolution/higher bitrate is the better option (720p with 5000kbps bitrate will most likely look better on my laptop than 1080[ with 2500kbps) but if you've got a big screen then you want better resolution to reduce the space between the pixels and there is a limit to how low you want to go with the bitrate.

If I were to watch something on my 55" TV I'd favour high bitrate 1080 over low bitrate 4K but if the bitrate is the same you want higher resolution.

And that is about the limit of my knowledge on the subject. If someone who knows more could offer thoughts, that might well be helpful.

[Night457]

Just personally, if I am watching on my laptop then I don't much care about a super quality image. Most often it is the previously mentioned case of watch and delete, or even LISTEN and delete as I do other computer work while it plays. (That works fine for talk shows or video podcasts.) You are absolutely right about what is really needed for a satisfactory BIG screen viewing experience. I realize I was strange for watching VHS on a big screen, but I got tired of pulling out and hooking up smaller TVs for VHS and finally got rid of all of them. There is a limit to how much space I have in my house for rarely-used secondary and tertiary TVs, especially the ones that were heavy and big for CRT. (And yes, I have worked on upgrading or finding rips for my only-on-VHS movies/videos. There are still a small handful left.)

Anyone who watches a movie on a phone has no interest or even conception of quality or aesthetic appreciation, so they don't count. Also I think most phones have less onboard storage space than laptops, so they are better off either streaming or downloading smaller files, not larger ones. If they download a larger file then SURELY it is only because their phone has the best internet connection, and they plan to transfer it off the phone as soon as possible, right? I could be way off here, because I do not understand mobile phone love in the first place.

I guess I have pretty much ruined the Bandyta movie thread now, so I moved the posts to a new technical thread.

[deadman]

I'm as bemused as you are with this kind of thing.

If you're watching on a smaller screen ie laptop/tablet/phone then smaller resolution/higher bitrate is the better option (720p with 5000kbps bitrate will most likely look better on my laptop than 1080[ with 2500kbps) but if you've got a big screen then you want better resolution to reduce the space between the pixels and there is a limit to how low you want to go with the bitrate.

If I were to watch something on my 55" TV I'd favour high bitrate 1080 over low bitrate 4K but if the bitrate is the same you want higher resolution.

And that is about the limit of my knowledge on the subject. If someone who knows more could offer thoughts, that might well be helpful.

I commented on this recently in the thread for Tigermilch, and I agree. Lower resolution and/or bitrate is good for watching movies on phones or tablets - something I tend not to do, because .... why would you do that? I've used a tablet on airplanes. That's it.

With a small screen, you can't really tell the difference between mediocre quality and top notch. If you're watching a 55" 4K screen on the other hand you want the best resolution and bitrate possible. Those 1.5 GB bluray rips aren't so good. With a brightly lit and mostly static scene it looks alright, but a dark scene or one with rapidly moving people or objects you can get blurring and pixelation. Some backgrounds also pixelate the image. Hard to say why.

If you're cursed with super slow internet, low bitrate and reduced resolution versions may be the only option. Otherwise download the best quality you can find and delete it afterward. Most movies and shows you don't want to keep permanently. View them and then feed them to the recycling bin, so they're not sitting on your hard drive just taking up space.

[Night457]

I thought you might have some thoughts on this topic, deadman.

Most movies and shows you don't want to keep permanently.

It has taken me decades (dating back to the VHS era) to just begin to START admitting that to myself ...