Books Forum Subsection

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Phuzzy4242
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Re: Books Forum Subsection

Post by Phuzzy4242 »   1 likes

ygl wrote:Most books are entirely text-based and just a couple of kilobytes in size, so we wouldn't need to worry about this new section impacting the overall available bandwidth for sharing the movies. I also think we wouldn't need to worry about the legality/safety of the content shared. If anything books would be a far less risk than movies, due to them being text-based (barring some special categories like photobooks and mangas). We could probably add a rule requiring them to be listed on Goodreads, which is the IMDb of books, so it'd be analogous to the rule we have for movies.
Neither bandwidth not legality is the issue. Need is the issue. Judging by how little literature has been posted in the last 15 years, there isn't any.
ygl wrote:I already have about five books in mind which I would like to share with the community, by releasing them on the ED2K network and posting them here. I would also be very interested to know which books the community has read and might also want to release or request. One of the books I'm reading now is Tideland, which as a matter of fact I started reading after I saw it mentioned here, on a comment made by none other than kev. So I think it's safe to assume that at least one of the admins reads books and will hopefully appreciate this suggestion.
I just don't think I'm making myself clear. Post the Tideland book in the freaking [REL] Tideland (2006) thread where it belongs. If the books you have in mind are not the source of a film, post them in their own thread in General and see what happens.
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Rich_Visiting
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Re: Books Forum Subsection

Post by Rich_Visiting »   0 likes

Please see your PM Thanks Phuzzy :thumbsup
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Re: Books Forum Subsection

Post by Rich_Visiting »   0 likes

Because there hasn't been a Book forum omg

Ok fuck it, take it, I give up, who is running this place now anyway? Can't share books no? The fundamental of who we are?
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Re: Books Forum Subsection

Post by ghost »   0 likes

OK... after reading the whole thread, I'll give also my 5 cents to it:

Like Phuzzy said, there is no need for a spearate sub forum for books to my opinion. We're 99.9 % about movies here. For me, it's enough to have this thread for the book issue.
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Re: Books Forum Subsection

Post by ygl »   0 likes

Phuzzy4242 wrote:I just don't think I'm making myself clear. Post the Tideland book in the freaking [REL] Tideland (2006) thread where it belongs.
Chill out Phuzzy, I think this comment was rude and uncalled for. We are just making a friendly suggestion here. You have every right not to like it or implement it, just like we have every right to raise a suggestion and voice our opinions, even when they might be different from yours. So please don't be a dick about it when other members post something that doesn't align perfectly with your beliefs, because I assure you that will happen a lot. It's just a fact of life: not everyone has the same opinions, and thank fuck for that.

You raised the issue of need. You don't really know what the need for a book subsection might be right now. You said it yourself: you are just going by the fact that nobody suggested it before. Well, now you've got two members suggesting it, and not just any members: two active members who contribute fairly often, which as far as I can tell there's probably no more than ten or so of those currently. So 20% of the most active members. Not to mention one of them is the original founder of the forum himself. I know, he's no longer in charge, but his opinions ought to at least be considered. All of ours should, in the spirit of the community we are, or should strive to be. An open-minded one, not an authoritative one.

Furthermore, I believe need doesn't necessarily have to be a precondition for the existence of a subsection. It could just as well come after the fact. I can almost guarantee that it will, eventually. I came across this forum by performing a web search for a rare movie and clicking through the result that pointed to its corresponding thread here. I bet this is the same case for almost everyone else. Why can't this also happen with the books? I think it will, and who knows? Perhaps this will end up being the opportunity the forum needed to grow and get more active, contributing members, which is so badly lacking right now.
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Phuzzy4242
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Re: Books Forum Subsection

Post by Phuzzy4242 »   1 likes

ygl wrote:
Phuzzy4242 wrote:I just don't think I'm making myself clear. Post the Tideland book in the freaking [REL] Tideland (2006) thread where it belongs.
Chill out Phuzzy, I think this comment was rude and uncalled for. We are just making a friendly suggestion here. You have every right not to like it or implement it, just like we have every right to raise a suggestion and voice our opinions, even when they might be different from yours. So please don't be a dick about it when other members post something that doesn't align perfectly with your beliefs, because I assure you that will happen a lot. It's just a fact of life: not everyone has the same opinions, and thank fuck for that.
The fact you and Rich won't take "We'll see" for an answer and you want this done instantly with no consultation is not a 'suggestion', it's a demand. My comment to you was exactly the correct one after emphasizing it more than once - post the book a film was derived from in the same forum as the film itself. Even if we eventually create a book forum, that would STILL be required. That's not a fuck you, that's simple logic. If you post a source book elsewhere, your post(s) would STILL be moved to the correct forum, like it or not, because that's where they belong, except you'd make an admin go to the trouble to do it because you couldn't be bothered or because it was a 'fuck you" to the admins.

There have been MANY opinions and disagreements in the 10 years I've been admin and we've worked them all out, but not in one hour and not the instant someone demands it.
ygl wrote:You raised the issue of need. You don't really know what the need for a book subsection might be right now. You said it yourself: you are just going by the fact that nobody suggested it before. Well, now you've got two members suggesting it, and not just any members: two active members who contribute fairly often, which as far as I can tell there's probably no more than ten or so of those currently. So 20% of the most active members. Not to mention one of them is the original founder of the forum himself. I know, he's no longer in charge, but his opinions ought to at least be considered. All of ours should, in the spirit of the community we are, or should strive to be. An open-minded one, not an authoritative one.
If there's such a big need, why haven't there been dozens and dozens of books posted in General in the last 17 years? No one is stopping you right now from posting your books, and never has been, yet you haven't done so. Where's the need if even YOU aren't doing it? As for how many people are for-or-against, it's still way too early to decide after only a few hours of discussion. That's not authoritarian, it's stepping carefully through a cow pasture so we don't step in crap.

As far as Rich's opinion, he has one and it's just as valuable as anyone else's. I'm not trying to be rude, but he gave up all claim to FLM long ago and no longer has a direct say in its operation. His opinions ARE being considered, as are yours and everyone else who comments.

You haven't been around long enough to know what we went through in the changeover. FLM almost went under, and a lot of it was because we had a VERY bad reputation. I'm not being authoritarian, I'm considering both sides, but my main objective is protecting the reputation we've worked so hard to rebuild, and to ensure FLM's survival. I don't want to see FLM go back to the mindset of its early days when the only reason something was posted was solely for prurient reasons.

What you propose might be nice to have, but it's NOT needed and could very easily lead to other problems that likewise aren't needed.
ygl wrote:Furthermore, I believe need doesn't necessarily have to be a precondition for the existence of a subsection. It could just as well come after the fact. I can almost guarantee that it will, eventually. I came across this forum by performing a web search for a rare movie and clicking through the result that pointed to its corresponding thread here. I bet this is the same case for almost everyone else. Why can't this also happen with the books? I think it will, and who knows? Perhaps this will end up being the opportunity the forum needed to grow and get more active, contributing members, which is so badly lacking right now.
Maybe so, but again, what's the rush? The idea was posted this afternoon and people are getting bent out of shape because it's not already been done. We don't work that way. If that's unacceptable, then by all means search out a different web site. We'd be sorry to see you go, but you must do what you think is right.
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Re: Books Forum Subsection

Post by ygl »   0 likes

Phuzzy4242 wrote: The fact you and Rich won't take "We'll see" for an answer and you want this done instantly with no consultation is not a 'suggestion', it's a demand.
Your comments read more as a "there's no need for this so it won't happen" than as a "we'll see" to me... And I honestly can't see what in either my or Rich's comments could have made you believe that we wanted (let alone demanded) this to be done immediately. I'm sorry you read them like that, because that couldn't have been further from our intentions. We never meant to hurry or coerce anyone into implementing this. In fact, we originally talked about this idea in a PM over one week ago, and we just made the thread today.

Rich already said that he's not a reader, so it would really change anything for him whether this gets implemented or not. I would have liked to see it realized, but even if it isn't, it would not change much for me either. I will still keep visiting the forum and contributing because I like the community and the content getting shared.

Everyone has already given their reasons for and against this idea, so I guess there's not much left to be said now. If you do eventually decide to implement this, great. If you don't, I may or may not just create a thread in General and post the book recommendations I've been wanting to share there.
Phuzzy4242 wrote: post the book a film was derived from in the same forum as the film itself. Even if we eventually create a book forum, that would STILL be required.
Just to be clear on this so I don't mess up if I decide to create that book thread in General: does it really make sense to require the revival of an old movie thread to post the book about that movie? Let's say I have ten books to recommend, all of which have been made into movies which were posted here at some point in time. Would I really need to revive all ten threads? Couldn't I just post the books in the general book thread and just link to their corresponding movie threads from there?
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Re: Books Forum Subsection

Post by Phuzzy4242 »   0 likes

ygl wrote:Your comments read more as a "there's no need for this so it won't happen" than as a "we'll see" to me... And I honestly can't see what in either my or Rich's comments could have made you believe that we wanted (let alone demanded) this to be done immediately. I'm sorry you read them like that, because that couldn't have been further from our intentions. We never meant to hurry or coerce anyone into implementing this. In fact, we originally talked about this idea in a PM over one week ago, and we just made the thread today.
Perhaps you didn't read my sentence: "If the books you have in mind are not the source of a film, post them in their own thread in General and see what happens." You probably also didn't read Rich's posts where he got pissed after I didn't respond to him in less than a half hour. I do have other obligations in RL and I'd already wasted a big part of the day on this.
ygl wrote:If you don't, I may or may not just create a thread in General and post the book recommendations I've been wanting to share there.
Your sentence sounds like "if you don't do what I want I'll take my toys and go home." That's entirely your choice. No one is required to post anything at all.
ygl wrote:Just to be clear on this so I don't mess up if I decide to create that book thread in General: does it really make sense to require the revival of an old movie thread to post the book about that movie? Let's say I have ten books to recommend, all of which have been made into movies which were posted here at some point in time. Would I really need to revive all ten threads? Couldn't I just post the books in the general book thread and just link to their corresponding movie threads from there?
I will re-say it so there is no possibility of misinterpretation:

If you want to post the book a film was created from, post it in the same thread as the film because that's where it belongs. It makes absolutely no sense to put it anywhere else.

If you want to post the books for 10 films, post each book in that film's thread. Absolutely "revive" the old movie threads - that happens every time someone makes a comment or releases an update, which is exactly what this is - an update to the film's info.

If you don't want to make 10 posts, that's perfectly okay. No one will be angry that you didn't.

This whole thing has blown up to "Stupid Level 11". The requirements are 100% sensible and simple - if you want a new forum created, prove it's needed by posting your non-source books in General. Source books go in each films' threads. 30 days from today we'll see how much traffic has been generated in the General forum.
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Re: Books Forum Subsection

Post by ygl »   0 likes

Got it, thanks for clearing everything up for me. I truly appreciate how you took the time to readily discuss this proposal so quickly after it was brought up, even if you won't implement it due to an apparent lack of need. As I said, I'd have wanted to see it happen but it won't bother me too much that it won't. I'll just come to this forum for the movies, and look for books elsewhere.

I personally think it'd be cleaner to have the books posted separate from the movie threads, either entirely confined to a general book thread, or in their own dedicated subsection. I presume many FLM members are not interested in books, so doing it this way ensures they can easily get them out of the way and focus on the movies.

I don't think I can bring myself to revive ten old movie threads just for posting their respective source books, even though you said it'd be totally okay to do it. I feel like if you are going to dig up an old thread, you must have a worthy reason for it that most people might be interested in (such as a nice quality upgrade of a previous release), and I can tell how a source book would not be a good enough reason in a movie-focused community like this one.

So I will take my toys books and go home. But as long as I'm still welcome, I'll definitely be back for the movies.
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Re: Books Forum Subsection

Post by Phuzzy4242 »   0 likes

Of course you're welcome here, including your books but we're going to have to agree to disagree about strewing material all over the place.

Consider this: If a book is in the same thread as the film it belongs to, more people will download it because they don't have to make a special effort - it's human nature to be lazy. It's also a whole lot tidier to keep related things together. If someone's not interested, they'll just skip over it like they do anything else.

I'm not sure what you have against posting in "old" threads. We do it all the time, even for films from the earliest days of FLM. If a book isn't worthy enough to update a thread, it probably isn't worthy of being posted anywhere else.

Are you worried there won't be enough other material to justify a separate group if you can't post source books there too? That would answer the question of whether that forum is needed, wouldn't it?

Post your books or not, that's up to you. Anyone else who wants to post books can do so too. We'll know in a month.
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